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Thread: Wall Naming Convention

  1. #1
    All AUGI, all the time ford347's Avatar
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    Default Wall Naming Convention

    I know this subject has come up before in other threads, and I have been one of the guys asking the questions, but since then I have put some thought into it and am trying to come up with something suitable for us that is geared towards what we are doing right now.

    First off, we do mostly residential, but will be doing more commercial in the future depending on some new hires etc., so that's down the road. But the convention has to be able to fit whatever wall types we may run into.

    For now, we mostly use wood walls, gyp, sheathing, stucco, wainscots for exterior thin brick etc. Nothing to extravagant. But even with these, I see a ton of different combinations as far as wall types are concerned.

    I have the WLC wall types template that Scott Davis posted some time back and had him explain to me what and how theirs was used. aaronrumple explained in a thread how their firm was coming up with and starting to implement a naming convention for their wall types. So I have done as much research as I can with the resources available to me and have just ended up with a bunch of questions. I think I'm starting to make things pretty confusing for myself and could use some suggestions on how to move forward.

    I would like to keep the actual wall type mark as simple as I can, so I don't end up trying to describe the wall type through the type mark itself, i.e. E6G,GSSA (Exterior, 6 inch, Gyp, Gyp-Sheathing-Stucco, 3.5" insulation). I think it's too long and I just don't like it much. I think a combination of a wall type name and a wall type legend or legend and schedule may be the answer. In WLC's wall types, they have defined A-Z and started over with double alpha from A-Z again, which makes sense. Just start thinking of diff. wall type combinations you use and give it a letter. But how do you make this information understood in your documents. Say you had a wood stud, with gyp. on each side and you called this wall type 'A'. Then you had a wood stud, gyp on int. side, 3/8" sheathing ext., and plaster ext. and you called it wall type 'B'. Would you have a legend that graphically displayed this wall type for every single one you came up with. That would mean you would have equal amount of wall type legends as you do wall types. Seems like a lot of drawing just for walls. Or would you create a legend that could describe a wall type using a combination of a graphical detail and a schedule? There seems like there is a compromise here somewhere and I just can't come up with a good format that would be easy enough to manage and make sense to both the people drawing the walls and the people having to understand the information in the documents to build the walls.

    Basically, I'm just asking for some advise. I don't want to figure out and draw all my wall types right now. I have a project coming up that will use 8-10 diff. types throughout, so I just want to develop a good nomenclature that will enable me to fit any wall type into and I can just keep adding to from there. I just want to start off using a good organizational method to begin with so I can focus on what I'm doing rather than winging it every time. I'm having a hard time conceptualizing this idea and making a decision.

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks
    Josh

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    All AUGI, all the time Justin Marchiel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wall Naming Convention

    For interior partitions is use a coding system that describes the wall
    WF4a is a wood frame 2x4 with 1/2" gwb. For exterior walls we use E1, which would be descried on a legend. exterior walls are hard to try to code due to the complexity, so i prefer to have them in a legend. for the most part interior partitions are just described by the coding, unless it has some complicated detailing or features about it (or is a fire seperation).

    For use the coding works pretty good and saves scheduling each wall. We used to do that and our wall schedule would have about 30-40 wall types (including exterior) and get pretty hard to look thru especially looking for a simple 2x4 wood stud wall.

    Justin

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    I could stop if I wanted to
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    Default Re: Wall Naming Convention

    I have followed your investigation on this topic with interest.

    The results of my deliberations after reading various responses has been to use tags and legends -my projects tend not to have very many different wall types though.

    It seems to me that this is something that can very easily become about as complex as the AIA Autocad layering system if you are not careful - exactly what you are trying to avoid.

    Good luck,
    Rob

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    I could stop if I wanted to jeff.95551's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wall Naming Convention

    Josh - we do mostly commercial (multi-family) work. Wood Frame, metal stud, cmu and occasionally concrete or something else. We really use about 12-14 different types. We just opted for a simple system that can be tagged easily. W-1 on up for Wood walls, S-1 on up for Metal stud, M-1 on up for Masonry, etc. This is basically to help the subs. The framer can skip the metal stud stuff, and the mason only has to look for the M- walls. The finish guys have to check everywhere anyway, so they're just stuck with it. Almost every wall type we use is Rated and is some kind of tested assembly, so we have a legend that describes the wall, and then another sheet with the full description of the UL, ICC, Gypsum Association, etc. wall system. This way all the little rules and exceptions are listed and accounted for, as well as insulation rules, since Revit Walls don't really deal with that actively. The better contractors here are getting very familiar with the Assembly codes - we will probably eventually just start using those. As for naming them within Revit - the simpler the better. We're a small office, though, which gives us some freedom. Very often we don't know what the wall is when we start the model, so we will start functionally (Wall around bike storage) and rename later.

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    All AUGI, all the time ford347's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wall Naming Convention

    Thanks for your replies guys.

    Jeff, How do you guys handle the diff. types of wood walls for instance. I know you stated you use a type mark like W-1, W-2 and so on, but is this project specific depending on what you have decided to use for the project, or are the W-1, W-2 alread pre-defined walls? And your wall type legends, do you draw these in every project, or do you have these wall legends already drawn based off of pre-defined W-1, W-2 etc.?

    What I've done in the past is draw the walls I need in a project, after I've got them all developed I give them a mark, W-1, W-2 or something similar, then write a description for the wall and leave it at that. I will also designate a linetype on the wall for a fire-rating if needed, but other than that, I haven't used a wall type legend that graphically describes the wall assembly. So previously, my naming has been per project, so nothing has really been organized at all. But when I think of how I can organize it, it jsut seems like a huge undertaking to document all the wall types, come up with some kind of table that lists the diff. sizes, HR ratings, insulation types, special notes and special modifiers or special conditions, and make it understandable to the readers, especially in the housing market. I'm trying to figure out how to simplify this legend but will still give you the info needed. But I really like the idea of having a graphical representation of the wall assembly.

    Tell you the truth, this is simply a lack of experience and exposure to this level of documentation. I would love to see some examples of some of your(you guys) legends and or wall types to give me a better idea of how to put it all together. Thanks for taking the time to read this one......I'll get it eventually!

    Josh

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    I could stop if I wanted to jeff.95551's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wall Naming Convention

    Josh - I'll show you what we've done in the past. I think the market you serve and the product you deliver have a lot to do with it. I've done a lot of custom single-family in the past, and there wasn't really any standard. Some contractors would like wood, others steel, and the finish systems insulation, all of that would change from job to job. For those doing public projects, they've got to get every little thing detailed and explained and communicated. They have to have a complex system. We're doing 60' high wood frame buildings, and a W-3 (our typical double-wall demising wall) will have double 2x4's at 8" o.c. grade select, and the top floor is single 2x4's at 16 or 24" o.c. common grade, and it changes project to project based on the seismic, wind classification, and any special loads. Plus there may be shear, which might be plywood or it might be gyp. A contractor that isn't sophistocated enough to manage this kind of coordination isn't qualified to do the work. If I tried to get all of that scheduled I'd have to hire accountants to keep track of it and accountants to build it. Plus then we'd be responsible for any mis-coordination. It is much better for us to set out some clear rules, teach the contractors how to use them, and then make them responsible.

    Like I said above, I'd get jeered off the stage if I proposed something like that to guys doing courthouses or post offices or clean rooms. I usually try to figure out the highest level of complexity I really have to manage, and make the simplest system I can that works. And then revise it two or three times as I go along.

    With the discussion we had previously about doing takeoffs, you might be forced into a more complex system, even if just for yourselves. If you've got the resources, it's worth the experiment.

    Good Luck.

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