Parcels disappearing...

[whf]

Among the myriad of other problems that I have with C3d, I've got a new parcel problem that I'm having trouble getting around. I would like to remove several parcels from my site to replace them with some parcels of a different zoning. When I select a parcel and "move to another site", the parcel itself will move with no problems, but a number of other parcels within the site disappear. They aren't being moved, they simply disappear. The parcel segments remain, but are no longer associated with anything. These are not adjacent parcels or parcels that would in any way be affected by common boundaries. I'm talking an entire block or two on the other side of the subdivision as well as randomly distributed single parcels within the subdivision. If I close the drawing and try again with the same parcel, the same "associated" parcels disappear. If I try it with a different parcel, the same thing happens except it will be an entirely different group of parcels to disappear. There seems to be no rhyme or reason for this..

I would comment on all of the other ghosts in this machine, but I'm too busy chasing them down. Civil 3d does greatly speed up certain tasks that used to take longer, but it also drags out other tasks that used to be a fairly quick fix. All in all, I would say it is a wash at best. Civil 3d is really only worthwhile for creating small pieces of a design (in which case the interconnected nature of elements, which is supposedly one of the strong points, is rendered moot) or for people who don't know LDD. While we will likely still be using C3d for producing some aspects of our drawings in the future, we will definitely not be using it to produce any type of deliverables or any drawings that we would need to rely on anymore.

On the other hand, if there is anyone that is any good at debugging that might like to take a look at my drawing file to check for errors, that would be greatly appreciated. (I would need to upload to our ftp site) I can't help but think that there must be something wrong somewhere with my drawing/db. Otherwise, if this is actually how C3d is supposed to function with a drawing that really isn't even that complicated, then I can't understand how someone could even think this is a marketable product (for what it is purportedly able to do) and I'm pretty miffed that we were conned into buying it. Thanks for listening.

[sinc]

Hang in there. Civil-3D has myriads upon myriads of problems, but once you get used to it, you might change your mind. Despite the hassles, I already much-prefer using C3D to using Land Desktop.

I have noticed issues with copying and moving parcels between sites, but I don't have enough experience with that yet to give you good pointers on that part. Instead, I'd ask why you are trying to move the Parcels to another site. Can you just create a new Parcel Style, and change the parcel style of parcels that have different zonings? Usually, this is what you want, anyway, because parcels that are in different Sites are "disconnected" from each other.

I know this may not be an ideal solution, but it might be "good enough". If not, post back with exactly why a new Parcel Style isn't working, and maybe we can come up with something else.

[whf]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, I am used to working with C3d... It did work fine for my simpler drawings. But now that they have become more cumbersome, it's not doing so well (multiple networks, multiple sites overlaid, multiple surfaces and composite surfaces, etc). I also tried to get cute and turn the water system into a network with valves, tees, etc. and actually had every 20' stick of c-900 modeled (p&p)...the machine really didn't like that one!! (and it is a very capable machine)

Actually I'm not just trying to change the parcel style to a different zoning, but the parcels themselves. It is an entirely different lotting scheme that corresponds to the different zoning, as our zone change request has not been looked upon favorably by the town. I really don't want to move the parcels anywhere, just to delete them en masse. The only way to do that without deleting parcels segment by segment (what I ended up doing) is to move them to a new empty site and then delete the site. I already had the alternate lotting scheme laid out previously. I archived that to xml earlier when my machine first really started bogging down thinking it would be fairly simple to bring them back in when/if I needed them. So, I've finally gotten my old layout back into my drawing. What should have been a few clicks and 30 minutes at the most (even less if this was simple linework) took me hundreds of clicks and 7 1/2 hours.... Time and money well spent..

[MHultgren]

Hi WHF,
I have had fun working with parcels. There are a few quirks with them, but like you, I feel the trade-off is well worth it. Question: Are the disappearing parcels along the same alignment? If so, how was the alignment created? Before or after the parcels themselves? I know I create my boundary, then the alignments, then layin the parcels. Sometimes when I use the Create ROW tool, it seems to 'connect' the blocks and some of the parcels that are created afterwards.
BTW I work at Smith Engineering in Durango! Will you be attending the classes next week being put on by the county?

[sinc]

I understand. I've been having my own go-arounds with Parcels, and the most I've done with them so far is some plats on subdivisions with fewer than 20 lots. Even on something small like that, Parcels leave a lot to be desired. So far, I've been able to manage everything, but I've hit some snags that would have really thrown me for a loop if I had discovered them on a large project, like the 300+ lot subdivision we're also doing right now in Land Desktop.

This product is getting better, but it can still be quite frustrating sometimes...

[whf]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies. Don't get me wrong..when the parcel tools are working they're great..it's when things don't work that they create more hassle that they're worth. As for the alignment question, no, the parcels are not along a common alignment and as far as I can tell have no element in common (besides being part of the same database). I think that in the future I am just going to start structuring my drawings differently. It seems that the interconnected nature that is one of the big selling points is also one of the big detriments...when something gets cheesed it cheeses other things.

As for the county classes, Mark... I would really like to go, more for the local networking than anything. Unfortunately, at $900 a seat, I don't think I'd get much out of it...unless I can manage to eat and drink $901 worth of free coffee and donuts. I took the "official" autodesk training when I was first starting out with the Civil 3d a few years ago, and I ended up already knowing about 98% of what was covered. Aside from the paid vacation and a great lisp routine that the instructor shared with me, it was kind of a waste. I understand from Jared that you used to teach Civil 3d? I would be interested in auditing the course or possibly even forming some sort of local users group...maybe helping establish some sort of local Civil 3d standard for our apparently burgeoning group of users? (not that we have anything like a standard, as of yet) Let me know what you think.. Thanks!

Bill Fellman
Willow Brook Homes/Osage Development/The Bottom Line
100 Jenkins Ranch Rd. Ste. E-1
Durango, CO 81301

[dgordon.68443]

I just completed a Planned Unit Development set of Construction plans for a property that had 392 lots. I did the project entirely in Civil 3D. Parcels at first threw me for a loop and I did not understand them. But then I did some research on the Internet and found a site call Civil3Drocks and they had a page where they explained Civil 3D parcels and how they functioned. One you understand them, they really are truly awesome. When parcels disappear for no reason its usually a bug. What I do is first try to undo the step I did. If that doesn't work then I leave the drawing without saving it, and I come back in and open the drawing and audit it. Usually audit will find something and fix it, and then I re save the drawing. Also shutting down Civil 3D occasionally when things start getting wacky and restarting it is very wise. For some reason the memory management is less than perfect. You really should tackle the bigger projects with parcels. That is where you will really recoup your investment. Small 20 lot projects are a wash one way or the other between LDD and C3D.

Thanks for your post, it was very interesting.

[MHultgren]

Hi all,

As for the county classes, Mark... I would really like to go, more for the local networking than anything. Unfortunately, at $900 a seat, I don't think I'd get much out of it...unless I can manage to eat and drink $901 worth of free coffee and donuts. I took the "official" autodesk training when I was first starting out with the Civil 3d a few years ago, and I ended up already knowing about 98% of what was covered. Aside from the paid vacation and a great lisp routine that the instructor shared with me, it was kind of a waste. I understand from Jared that you used to teach Civil 3d? I would be interested in auditing the course or possibly even forming some sort of local users group...maybe helping establish some sort of local Civil 3d standard for our apparently burgeoning group of users? (not that we have anything like a standard, as of yet) Let me know what you think.. Thanks!

Actually, I still do teach. I have a session running in ATP this month on Labels. As far as the local AUG (or would it be a C3UG?) I am all for creating one for our area. I can get all the info we would need to get it started. It would just be a matter of letting everyone in the area know about it. I am sure we could get a few members. Everyone that I have talked with wants to learn all they can, just don't want to have to pay for it! So many people just can't understand what ROI is!