Viewports and Defpoint layer

[Hammer.John.J]

doesn't seem like it would be quicker if you have to isolate layer 0 and defpoints knowing that you only want to delete objects on 1 layer, yet you need to stay on.

the pain to select stuff on one layer and not the other alone is reason enough to qselect IN THIS case.

[BrenBren]

doesn't seem like it would be quicker if you have to isolate layer 0 and defpoints knowing that you only want to delete objects on 1 layer, yet you need to stay on.

the pain to select stuff on one layer and not the other alone is reason enough to qselect IN THIS case.

I'm not going to continue arguing a point with you. I stated that I would rather use a non-plotting layer than defpoints, which means I would only have to isolate one layer, and delete stuff that way. I find that to be quicker. You may not. That's fine. Do things the way you choose.

However, do not come in here and say that people answering questions are ridiculous, and that the answers they are giving are BS.

[Hammer.John.J]

I guess the only real problem I have with defpoints is that if you have all this text or whatever on defpoints, and you want to delete it, the easiest way would be to isolate that layer, correct? Well, if it's on defpoints you have to have layer 0 turned on as well, which, if you have anything else on layer 0, you can't simply isolate one layer, select everything and delete it.

That's the main reason I use a separate layer for non-plotting items.

pretty sure you said you can't simply isolate one layer, but anyways.....

You're right it isn't b.s., my bad, it's a post of opinions and no facts. Has anybody answered opie? not 1 person providing any evidence that using defpoints causes fatal errors with drawings or any other problems, other than unsupported testimony.

I'm not arguing with you, i'm agreeing with you that you can't just freeze defpoints to delete stuff on defpoints, but there are astronomically faster ways to delete objects on layers, WHEN the objects are on several layers. That is fact, not opinion.

If you prefer to delete objects by layer isolate, hey great but that isn't a programming or technical flaw with using defpoints. It's an opinion, based on justifying the way you select objects.

You're right, it isn't b.s. it's a bunch of opinions.

And i can come in here a say this is rediculous, because it is. People are trying to say defpoints shouldn't be use but no one knows exactly why?

so what if they don't automatically create defpoints in 2012.... you can make it yourself, like any other layer. For now it is just 1 less layer you need to make, and then be sure that it never gets accidentally changed to plotting layer.

FACT:
if you draft on defpoints, it will not plot in any version of CAD, to date.

FACT:
Any layer excluding layer 0 and defpoints can be change to a plotting layer. And layer standards can be over wrote.

[Shinyhead]

OK, not to pour gasoline, thats not my intention. BUT, there is one issue I can think of, due to the odd relationship between zero and defpoints, if you turn off the zero layer, anything on the defpoints layer cannot be selected. You can see it, but you cannot select it. It is one of those really rare situations that a newbie drafter will often waste an incredible amount of time on. By avoiding using those two layers, we have almost never had an issue like that. (block are done on zero layer, thats all).

Our viewport layer naming convention is pretty hard too. its called "VIEWPORTS" and its set to noplot.

sorry, the other names for that layer made me laugh for some reason.

[H-Angus]

Here's some info from Autodesk which may help you make a decision on how you want to do things: Make of it what you will.

Creating Your Own Non-Platting Layers Instead of Using Defpoints ID: TP00113

Freezing Defpoint ID: TS1055486

Objects on Defpoints Layer ID: TS22682

Point objects not affected by PDMODE and PDSIZE variables ID: TS1065826

Unable to select a viewport ID: TS1058464

The above links refer to specific releases of Autocad (which is stated in each link) and if you are using earlier versions such as R14, 2000, 2002 etc then I would suggest you take a little extra time to search through the Autodesk Knowledge Base as there are quite a few other issues relating to the defpoints layer for these earlier releases.

I hope the above helps a little, enjoy.

[dgorsman]

...And i can come in here a say this is rediculous, because it is...

You may want to check the posting rules.

[gfreddog]

You're right, it isn't b.s. it's a bunch of opinions.

And i can come in here a say this is rediculous, because it is.

http://forums.augi.com/faq.php?faq=v..._vb_augi_donts

• Do not mistake our Forums for your personal soap box. The Forums are designed as a communication tool to assist our members in solving problems and becoming more productive in their use of Autodesk products.

[jaberwok]

if it was anything other than that, it would be in every single drawing like layer 0.

It IS in every drawing that contains even one associative dimension.

[Opie]

It IS in every drawing that contains even one associative dimension.

Unless you rename the layer and delete it. :P

[irneb]

Well .... I'm not sure about renaming & deleting Defpoints - I haven't even tried that, and I'm not willing to stick my finger into that particular socket. But the way I understand this, here's the reasons for NOT putting ANYTHING on Defpoints (not just Viewports):

1. AUDIT moves everything (which is not a dim definition point) off the Defpoints into an $AUDIT_BAD_LAYER. So now your Viewports are moved onto something else, without your knowledge.
2. Defpoints (as well as 0) works differently when XRefs are involved. There's no XRef specific layer for these - they're either on or off throughout the containing & xrefed dwgs.
3. PDMODE & PDSIZE has no effect on points placed on the Defpoints layer.
4. If anything (and this I have personal experience of) is placed on the Defponts layer ... AND you've got Layer 0 frozen, you can't select those things on Defpoints. They appear, but you can only select them with the ALL option then deselect everything else. And I have had a situation where AC got a little confused & didn't even allow me to select after I thawed Layer 0.

Further to the above AutoDesk recomendations. It depends on your layer standards, you should try to stick to something (at least company wide). So if you decide to use Defpoints (or not), then EVERYONE (in your company) must do the same (preferably all other consultants you work with as well - good luck trying to get that right). To me the major reason for this is: "You won't get nasty surprises, because you froze / thaw a layer and something unexpected happens".