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Thread: VIZ to be phased out...

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    Time Lord Steve_Bennett's Avatar
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    Default VIZ to be phased out...

    http://pressreleases.autodesk.com/in...383%3C%2Ftd%3E

    If you have been loving VIZ, look out - this will be a big change!

    Also more info can be found here:
    http://www.worldpressdays08.com/page...roducts&sub1=1
    Steve Bennett |BIM Manager
    Taylor Design | Adventures in BIM

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    Certifiable AUGI Addict dzatto's Avatar
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    Default Re: VIZ to be phased out...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Bennett View Post
    http://pressreleases.autodesk.com/in...383%3C%2Ftd%3E

    If you have been loving VIZ, look out - this will be a big change!

    Also more info can be found here:
    http://www.worldpressdays08.com/page...roducts&sub1=1
    Yep, just got my email notification about that. This really sucks since we JUST renewed our subscription a few weeks ago.

    My reseller didn't even know about it. He found out from me.
    Why is it called common sense when it is so rare?

    RevitForum.org

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    Time Lord Steve_Bennett's Avatar
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    Default Re: VIZ to be phased out...

    I work for a reseller and didn't know about this until last week.
    Steve Bennett |BIM Manager
    Taylor Design | Adventures in BIM

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    Default Re: VIZ to be phased out...

    So my question is: am I correct in thinking that the new Autodesk 3ds Max Design 2009 product will cost the same as max? Thus eliminating a competent product at a fair price and replacing it with a far more expensive version which will be more than a lot of people need?

    I see this as a way to make more money, not give us more features. Are they going to eliminate ACAD LT too?

    Sorry for the rant. I just don't appreciate this as a "we're doing this for the customer" move.

    All that said, i actually do prefer max over viz, but only because most of the plugins out there that give better functionality than the app ships with are written for max, not viz, and while some work as long as you can figure out what versions are comparable, some do not.

    Feature wise, there really aren't any max features that I would NEED to have for arch-vis. I never filled out a survey on whether I would rather use Max, and I find it hard to believe that 90% of viz customers have every really tried Max or really know why they would rather use max.

    I'll tell you what would really "exceed my expectations". They give me this new max design 09 for the same subscription cost as VIZ and simply cross-grade my subscription to max with no additional fees. THAT would prove that this is about customer satisfaction and not about lining their pockets at the borg.

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    Time Lord Steve_Bennett's Avatar
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    Default Re: VIZ to be phased out...

    A valid complaint and the following is not meant to try and minimize it or help you justify Autodesk's decision. Pricing is discussed in this PDF which is from the link I posted earlier in this thread. As a humble suggestion, possibly take a look at the documents that have been released prior to Auto-bashing Autodesk. The cost to cross grade from VIZ to 3ds MAX Design is dirt cheap and gets you into a higher end product.

    Some things to consider about this:
    • VIZ and MAX have different binaries, which means twice the amount of work is needed to maintain VIZ.
    • 3ds MAX and 3ds MAX Design are of the same binary which means they can reduce the amount of resources needed to maintain VIZ and focus on the 2 flavors of MAX.
    • The new feature list in 3ds MAX Design is impressive - especially for those who are in the Architectural field.
    • Existing VIZ subscription customers will have access to a new plugin for VIZ - Pro-Booleans - which was previously only available for 3ds MAX.
    • Autodesk has a responsibility to its share holders to remain a profitable company, so part of this may be about "money" but at least they are focusing their efforts on one product to address the needs of the Architectural field. In the past, 3ds MAX was strictly for game development. The Architectural field has really helped push the evolution of MAX into an entirely different field and Autodesk is trying to address this use of MAX in the most efficient way possible. Would you provide some customers' a service that was efficient and others a service that you lost money on?
    Again, the above is to try and help those faced with VIZ being phased out see some of the factors they might not originally have thought of. Hope this helps.
    Steve Bennett |BIM Manager
    Taylor Design | Adventures in BIM

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    Design Visualization Moderator stusic's Avatar
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    Default Re: VIZ to be phased out...

    From the press release:
    3ds Max Design 2009 includes all features offered in Autodesk 3ds Max 2009, with the exception of the software development toolkit (SDK).
    So... even though they're the same price, why wouldn't everyone get Max and ditch Design? It's the same price for the same product (plus you get the SDK).
    Phillip Bradshaw
    Lead Pixel Pusher, Lucid Design Studio
    CAD Detailer, Proctor Productions

    A doctor can bury his mistakes but an architect can only advise his clients to plant vines. - Frank Lloyd Wright

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    Design Visualization Moderator stusic's Avatar
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    Default Re: VIZ to be phased out...

    Also, all the features of Max are included with Design (yes, minus the sdk), but are all the features of Design included with Max? Just after the statement I quoted above, this follows:

    3ds Max Design also includes Exposure technology for simulating and analyzing sun, sky, and artificial lighting
    Are these the same sun/sky tools I'm familiar with in Max? What's this "Exposure technology"? Is that the exposure controls we've been asking for?

    If Design is the same as Max, but includes tools that aren't included with Max, I may just make a leap...
    Phillip Bradshaw
    Lead Pixel Pusher, Lucid Design Studio
    CAD Detailer, Proctor Productions

    A doctor can bury his mistakes but an architect can only advise his clients to plant vines. - Frank Lloyd Wright

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    Default Re: VIZ to be phased out...

    I forgot in my above post - you don't have to cancel your subscription for VIZ...
    Steve Bennett |BIM Manager
    Taylor Design | Adventures in BIM

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    Default Re: VIZ to be phased out...

    I'm sorry, but I see this as a money move. It's really not as much about the cost difference between max/viz, but that this is another move to force everyone onto subscription, which in turn drives yearly releases of new versions, which IMO are unnecessary. I still haven't installed Viz08. I've been too busy with deadlines to worry about botching up all the plugins/workflow I have setup.

    Honestly, for myself, personally, a $250 upgrade to max is a great deal. Well, $250 on top of my existing subscription fee. I'm just thinking about all the people out there that either don't have Viz or Max, or have an older version of Viz and don't want to go on subscription etc. Your only option now is a $3500 software + subscription costs.

    I guess, though, this is the kind of stuff that causes other software companies to explode. As cheaper/better solutions evolve (Sketchup/Maxwell Render), people will have more choices.

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    Revit Arch. Wishlist Mgr. Wes Macaulay's Avatar
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    Default Re: VIZ to be phased out...

    True. We don't have Max Design, and we're unlikely to buy it at that cost. We'll look at other alternatives, thank you very much
    Wes Macaulay LEED AP
    Teck Construction LLP
    Revit 2014 x64 | Win7 x64 | nVidia GT 650M
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