Revit & New generation users vs old users

[Misteracad]

I just came across this thread.

For the record, the "Old Guys" aren't all that way. I've be doing architectural drafting since 1961....CAD'ing since 1984. My company just landed a project that requires Revit MEP. MEP is NOT my favorite discipline but I can't wait to get my hands on a copy of Revit. So I'll draw just about anything I'm asked to for the chance to use it.

BTW, I could have hung up my "T-Square" and retired a few years ago.

Way to go T Good luck and have fun!

[cganiere]

Don't train them on the model & 3D. Make them us the 2D tools in REVIT.

[3dway]

RE early in your post - older users.

Keep in mind that sometime around 50 years of age, the way you learn most effectively changes. People around 50 and older (and maybe a bit younger) learn best by relating something new, to something that they already know. Current research is indicating that the brain remains plastic throughout life but the most effective learning method changes. (I'm extrapolating a bit from some pedagogy that I got from sports instruction but I believe it to be universal).

The other major limiting factor will be that many people associate alot of pain with learning. When presented with to options which both represent pain, people will choose the least immediately painful solution. Being seen as someone who is too old to learn will also diminish that person's willingness to take on the risk that failing to learn the new thing will prove their fear right (that they're too old to learn). They'd rather be the PITA that resists the new system and is capable at the current one, than someone who supports the new system which fails, or worse fails at the new system which is a success.

I'd say manipulate your users, knowing what motivates them, and what they fear, into supportting you.

[Design Apparatus]

Just chiming in here (post is already a little old...better late than never).
The "experienced" drafters...cut 'em loose! I'm sorry, but I learned to hand draft, then be an AutoCad monkey, then worked with the dreaded Architectural Desktop, and now have forayed into ArchiCad and Revit. I have had to do this to remain competitive, and to be MORE productive. Yes, the first 6 months of Revit was challenging, but I am at least as productive if not more than before. There are literally thousands of architects, drafters and other support personnel that are currently out of work or going to soon be...they would all love to get in line and "take" those experinced drafter's jobs...I'm sure there are unemployed architects with "too much experience" that would be happy to take their jobs to keep food on the table...AND they would study at home at night to get up to speed on the software.
I may sound hard, but give me a break. Those guys can chit chat away at the unemployment office! they are lucky they do not work for me.
It used to be "lines and arcs, baby!" Those lines and arcs have form now...get with the program or find another profession, the new paradigm is moving upon us quickly.
I'll get off the rant high-chair now

[oliveoil182411]

I may sound hard, but give me a break. Those guys can chit chat away at the unemployment office! they are lucky they do not work for me.
It used to be "lines and arcs, baby!" Those lines and arcs have form now...get with the program or find another profession, the new paradigm is moving upon us quickly.
I'll get off the rant high-chair now

I'll have to agree, you are being a little harsh. But not about the chit chat issue. If the senior guys are not working, they should at least be taking some time to play with Revit. The job market is crazy competitive for any CAD user these days, and this should not be taken lightly.

On the flipside, the "old" guys, especially the designers, have a lot to offer. I'm not in the over forty range yet(didn't know that was considered old), but I personally have benefited greatly from the "older" guys. They know what the end result of all that drafting and modeling should be; something being built. I once worked for a guy who said that he would hire a guy with zero CAD experience if he/she had even an ounce of design experience/ability. He said that he would just teach them CAD in house. I guess he was getting alot what you guys call "CAD monkeys" through the door.

Maybe another way for the original poster, Beancud, to handle this is to have the senior guys do what they do best, design(if they are designers). Pair them up with the young guy using the new software. The senior guy teaches the young guy design, and in turn the young guy teaches the senior guy Revit. The trouble with this solution in Beancud's case is getting the experienced young guy on Revit. By reading the original post, it looks as though Beancud is the young experienced Revit user. Good luck.

[oliveoil182411]

I'm finding it hard finding forward thinking drafters who has XX amont of experience. Especially in the services side, everyone around me is grey and worn out. I don't want to stereo type drafters but it isn't exactly an ideal occupation for enthusiastic younger people to get into....

It is not my intention to steer the conversation this direction, but you do have somewhat of a point here. People don't go into this career for the pay(yeesh) or the respect anymore. CAD in any form(even Revit) has had its hayday. It is harder and harder to find company's that want designers and not just CAD monkeys. I don't think you are stereotyping when you say the quality of potential personnel is poor. What upwardly mobile student, when choosing a career path, would choose a career where the pay is mediocre and virtually there is no room for advancement. Only the student that truly loves this stuff is who. So the staff that is diligent and precise in their work, quit giving them redlines and train them in design. I don't care. You can even train them in maintain your software(CAD management). But if you don't, they will leave for better opportunities or a new career.

End rant.

[sobdeijn]

I think a big problem of it al is that a lot of firms/employees haven't really learned anything for year and forgot how to learn new skills. I my current job I see alot of people who have never heard from xref's or polylines. They just learned a trick and stopped learning after that. But when people constantly learn new things they learn new things also faster and easier. What I would recommend is this: Start small first teach them to learn again. Export your revit model and let them draft in autocad but update their knowledge of autocad or any other usefull skill what intrests them. And then slowly but surely show them the benefits of revit. And let them do small markup stuff, some detailing, before moving onto the big stuff.

And if after all this they still won't develop there own skills further. There are only 2 options left. Find them a other job within the company that interests them (since there current job doesn't seems to). Or sack them.

[jackc1377562572]

That is interesting question, and there no specific one answer to it. The biggest difference between the older generation and the newer one is techonology and how we communicate. The newer generation is focused on communicating with friends, family, coworkers, and other people at light speed. Also the new generation is about displaying their life online for the world to see; it is almost like they all want to be movie stars in the movie called "Life." Twitter, myspace, facebook, and other sites have become not just a tool online, but a huge part of a person's life. The older generation, like my father, still write letters, send cards, and like to talk on the phone. So the biggest difference the speed and access to conversing.

[duane.brown]

As a 40-something, I cut my teeth on t-squares and board drafting. Starting with AutoCAD 2.1 in the 1980's I could recognize the advantage AutoCAD has brought to the industry - but still I often miss the 'art' of drafting so I can certainly empathize with you colleagues in that respect, but.....

To me, every major release has brought challenges (I too resisted ribbons for a long time) and while I am an advanced 3DSMAX user as well, Revit (MEP) has proven to be a bit formidable to me as well (wheres the dammed command line? <grin>). Even so, I've sat through training sessions, bought books and spent considerable butt-time in front of the software. Despite me having a different mindset, it is coming together. Just needs time and practice. We haven't transitioned Revit into a production environment yet as we are still use Architecture 2012 for our daily work, but as a forward thinker in management, I can see this is where the industry is going. Our transition plan is in effect and we are phasing out AutoCAD for Revit.

One thing I have learned throughout my rise in management is that you need to bring value to your company. Continued enhancement on skill-sets through continued education and evolving with software is what employers not only want - but need to survive - now more than ever. Employers need competitive advantages by offering clients enhanced services. Employees are no different. Just like a client can go somewhere else that will deliver what they want, employers likely will seek skilled employees that deliver. Making yourself valuable to your employer is a win-win. I didn't get 20+ years with my firm by being a complacent.

While you may find yourself in a undesirable situation by pulling the workload, just remember attitude is everything. No one likes complainers so don't sweat what your co-workers are or are not doing. Just do what you feel is best by your employer and their client. In time, that attitude will be recognized and rewarded.