Revit In-house Training

[kbassham]

We are an MEP consulting firm in Austin, Texas who purchased Revit MEP over a year ago. We primarily use AutoCAD for our drafting needs and our intentions were to spend a little time each day learning the Revit program and try to implement it throughout the company when we felt comfortable doing so. Thankfully (or not so thankfully depending on who you ask around here) we have been very busy so our Revit goals had to be pushed to the side. Reevaluating our game plan we realize that our idea probably won’t work as we don’t have a big enough cad/drafting department to give up the needed hours during the week to learning Revit. Also, we can’t afford to dedicate one person solely to learning Revit.

At this point we are considering hiring a Revit MEP consultant for a determined period to walk us through our first project from beginning to end. We’re seeking a consultant that first can teach us the Revit MEP program, thus far most instructors we have found are knowledgeable in the Revit Architecture field/program and this is little help to us. Second, have intimate knowledge of MEP systems.

If any of you have used this or a similar approach could you please answer a couple of questions for us? Do you feel this is a good approach toward learning and implementing this product? Did it work out as you wanted? Were you happy with the consultant and what you learned? Would/could you share that consultant’s contact information with us?

[Ian Matthews]

I work for a large company and we're just starting to implement Revit MEP. My last (relatively small) company was thinking about it, but they would have had/are having the same problems that you're having: too busy to learn it and too small to nominate a 'Revit Champion'. Because of this I see MEP trickling down from the larger consultancies to the smaller firms.

As far as getting help from your Autodesk resellers, then I'd recommend it up to a point. Get an initial 3 day intro course under your belt. Unfortunately, at least in this neck of the woods (Sydney), the intro course is Architecturally based, so you spend at least 30 - 40% of the time learning how to model stairs, roofs etc. If you do the course with maybe one other guy, you'd be able to pass on the relevant knowledge to the rest of your team over a period of a couple of weeks at an hour or so a day.

You'll need some hands on experience at this point and I'd start by remodelling already completed contracts. Get as many people involved in this as possible so that you can feed off each other. Not exactly a profitable exercise, but it'll give you a good idea where the problems lie and - very important here - you'll know what questions to ask to get to the next step. The Autodesk tutorials are OK for getting some basics covered but not all jobs comprise simple duct runs connected to VAVs.

The problem that I've had from this point onwards is finding specific MEP help. The knowledge base is incredibly small out there. Even the resellers have no-one with building services experience - and I can't really blame them for this. I know they're looking, but the pool of available talent is just too small.

At some point you then need to get your local dealer into the office and run through a small contract from Go to Whoa. It'll blow your profit margin out of the window, but that's something that'll you'll have to grin and bear. The bigger the job, the more expensive this gets, but you learn more. The smaller the job, the less it hurts financially, but you may need to get the 'experts' back in for further in-house training. We're waiting for a suitable job to get to this stage.

I'd recommend that you don't touch anything except mechanical services to start. I'm not going anywhere near hydraulics yet - there appears to be waaay too many problems written about it in these forums for me to even consider it. And electrical services is on the back burner until we get mech up and running.

I'm treating this like a marathon. The training just seems to go on and on, it's a pain in the arse to do, you feel like you're not making any progress and the whole execise is just plain painfull. I wonder every day why the hell I'm doing it, but I won't let the problems beat me. At some point I'm going to get a job out of the door done completely in Revit.

Maybe...

[BigBadBIM]

I work as an Autodesk Application Specialist (support and training) and it is my opinion that ANY time spent using the product is productive. No, you don't need to know how to model stairs in REVIT to design MEP systems. That being said, even if all that is being offered by your local retailer is Arch training it will get you a loooong way towards understanding the REVIT user interface and how the software works. Will you be able to jump right into a MEP design project after taking a REVIT Arch essentials class? No, but if that is a finacially feasible training program for you, I would say take it. Then get a REVIT MEP consultant to come give you instruction in designing systems. I would also suggest learning the system design (as it pertains to REVIT) in disipline specific modules. HVAC, Plumbing, Electrical (not necessarily in that order.)

The model that we tend to follow here is; Have the client come for a workshop (4hrs of free REVIT Arch training. Which is an existing marketing/demo program we have.) Then distribute a trial version of REVIT MEP. Have the client work for a week or so using the tutorials (we don't expect them to actually spend a great deal of time on this, but every little bit helps.) Then come in for discipline specific Essentials training. After that we suggest that they start a project; realizing the finacial impact of learning a new software (any new software.) Then we usually do some in office consulting. Usually an hour or two every week or so. It's surprising how quickly they are weaned off of our support though. Then we switch to telephone support; making sure that the client realizes that support and training are different things and that we can't teach them over the phone, but we can remind them where to find something or how to do something they have already learned.

[dmb.100468]

I am an Application Specialist for an Autodesk channel partner (reseller).
I worked in the design industry for 12 years as an Electrical designer. I have been working with Revit MEP since the beta of the first release.

It has been my experience that companies that are looking for MEP training and go to Arch training come away dissatisfied. There are some basics to Revit that apply to all of the platforms and these are important to learn. But we find that it is crucial to learn the platform specifics of MEP. The reason I came to work for a reseller is because I recognized the need for MEP specific specialists and training. I typically do 2 days of HVAC, 2 days of Electrical and 1 day of Plumbing training depending on the client's needs.

The main focus is what we call an IPD (Integrated Project Delivery) where we utilize our knowledge of the design processes to help clients achieve a successful Revit project. We have a registered architect and a structural engineer, and the 3 of us work together with clients to walk them through their consulting processes. Training is just a piece of the puzzle, a "leg" of the marathon if you will

[mwenta]

Having been in the production world and then going into the reseller side as an Applications Engineer let me say this. When I first started using Revit we used the reseller and found it to be a huge waste of time and money. The applications engineer that they sent us was a supposed 'expert' but spent more time on the phone with Revit in Waltham, MA. I understand that everyone doesn't have the answers to everything, my point is this. The people that some, not all resellers hire are not actual end users and are only as smart as the books that they are provided with. I have trained and consulted companies throughout the midwest on all three platforms, my forte was and is the architectural product. Just because I worked with structural and MEP firms on the production side, that in no way made me an expert.
My point is this, the reseller should be a logical resource for help, just ask questions that pertain to your needs and expectations. Because they are a business driven by profits they may tell you that they are qualified, ask the right questions. In my area, there is nobody qualified for any of the products and we deal with everything in house. I have since gone back to the production side. Some things that you will need to consider when seeking someone out.

1. Can they help you setup a template
2. Can they help you implement your standards
3. Cann they help and teach you how to make effective content
4. Do they provide 'real world' training (meaning that they can teach outside of either the Ascent or Autodesk manual)
5. Provide custom training suited for your needs

This is in no way meant to bash on any of the AE's, because there are a lot of good AE's out there. Unfortunately reseller management tends to not find them as valuable as the client does. Good luck and if I could be of any help, don't hesitate in conatacting me.

[dmb.100468]

Some things that you will need to consider when seeking someone out.

1. Can they help you setup a template
2. Can they help you implement your standards
3. Cann they help and teach you how to make effective content
4. Do they provide 'real world' training (meaning that they can teach outside of either the Ascent or Autodesk manual)
5. Provide custom training suited for your needs

These are great questions! I'd be happy to explain how we can answer each of them. Feel free to contact me.

[kbassham]

Thanks to all. Your insights have been very helpful and enlightning. I look forward to hearing from more people on the in's an out's of in-house training and other tips or suggestions. I may take you guys up on your offer of contacting you.

[Misteracad]

Wow! Some of the responses to this post sound VERY familiar and too close to home LOL Therefore, I am choosing to offer my $0.02 even though the thread is a little old...

I too have worked on both sides of the fence. I even tried working for multiple different resellers at different times throughout my career looking for the right fit where I could train others and apply my skills best, but ultimately there was always something that rubbed me wrong about the way that side of the business works. Sometimes it was just poor management, but most of the time it was the huge emphasis on sales...not just the product, but training as well. As a long-time user of CAD software in the design field (22 years and counting), I knew all too well that the potential users and purchasers of ABS, AutoCAD MEP or Revit MEP, wanted to know how the software was going to help them do their job better than vanilla AutoCAD, and most importantly, why they would even want to use it! Instead there was a lot of focus on showing the bells and whistles that certainly "wowed" the audience, but did not include enough substance for some. If someone sharp had a question that the AE could not answer, they were instructed to say "I'll get back to you on that," but typically never did For me, I tried to learn everything I could as to how the program worked so I would have answers to the hard questions, but got so frustrated with the pressure from upper management and the poorly-written courseware that I just quit and went back to production.

Now I'm not bashing Application Engineers or the resellers either--because as MWENTA said--there are a lot of good AEs and resellers out there...you just need to shop around, get references, and be prepared to PAY! The point I am trying to make is that the customer has to be careful and very direct in what they ask for. I'm on the user side of the fence once again, but in a CAD Management role...trying very hard to be a BIM Manager for a firm who is attempting to embrace the Revit technology...but even with my background and exposure to the products (which is far more than most), I am still amazed at all the things you don't learn in training or in the early stages of implementation.

In regards to Revit MEP, my firm bought training from our reseller that consisted of one BASICS or ESSENTIALS class that everyone attended, and was then followed up with one ADVANCED class in each: Mechanical, Electrical, Plumbing and Fire Protection. Side note: We also purchased Revit Structure training that I attended, and it was setup very similar. Anyway, depending on the person's discipline, they would attend the appropriate class, but I myself attended each one. Then we had two days of Revit Management for those individuals who were expected to spend time creating families, setting up projects, or managing models. I of course attended both of those as well. Then we followed all of that up with multiple days of onsite "shadowing" that gave the users a chance to work on real projects with the comfort of having an AE on-hand.

It may be no surprise that this type of training can get very expensive, but it's a necessary evil IMO. We also took advantage of phone support and webinar-based training whenever possible, and encouraged the users to read blogs, the AUGI Forums, and Autodesk Discussion Groups, to help absorb this new way of doing things. The training seems like it will never end, but on a positive, I can say from experience that once you learn the Revit interface, it's pretty easy to pick up any flavor of Revit and be comfortable. It comes down to learning the specific design tools for the task at hand, and TROUBLESHOOTING!!! If you can become a pro at that, you can find a job anywhere

One additional caveat...we also brought in the AE to provide a Project Management-level training class that was geared towards PMs, Engineers, and Managers that typically would not have a need to model in Revit, but needed to know what the Designers were going to go thru. This proved to be very eye-opening, but I think they could use a refresher LOL

So, has it worked? Yes, but it's a neverending process of learning, and relearning. However, if you don't align yourself with the right reseller and AEs with not just intimate knowledge of the PROGRAM, but intimate knowledge of the INDUSTRY as well, you will make this difficult process even harder! Good luck, you will need it

Oh yeah, sorry for writing a book!

[Chad Smith]

From my experience, training from resellers for introductory sessions has been a waste of time.

While I can't speak for MEP, I find that the Tutorial guide for Architecture, that can be downloaded off the Autodesk webside is quite a good start. You can even order a free hardcopy which makes it easier to read. The tutorials should get you up and running with the basics and general overview of the Revit principals quite quickly.

From here, you should have enough background information to work through how to use the rest of the more specialised tools. If you are still having troubles, then I recommend forking out some cash to do a more intermediate to export training course from a reseller. The key is to get at least one user up to an advanced/export level so that they can then offer tips to new users.

User training becomes an exponential growth. The more advanced users in the office, the more resources you now have to offer to a greater number of new users. So some advanced reseller training for the first 1-2 users, then the rest of the users will take lead from the existing.

With any new users I have trained in the past, I give them the tutorials book to go through as much as they can in two days, by which time the then have enough basic experience to start on a project under the guidance of myself and/or another experienced user.

Before I recently changed jobs, I used to even give a 1.5 hour group Q&A session once a fortnight. I found that most users generally had the same questions. Even as the trainer, it's amazing how much you learn small tips from new users.
I'm hoping to start this up again at my new job.

[pauljordan]

I know I'm a little late on chiming in on this post but, as an AE and newly specializing in the MEP world, I have to stress that the need for basic Revit Architecture training is by far a must have. You wouldn't walk in and take a Civil 3D class without knowing Autocad would you?

The problem I'm having right now is finding any decent courseware on Revit MEP. I've got a firm I have to train on Revit MEP Electrical and the AOTC courseware is like 20 pages. Place a few light fixtures, wire a couple of outlets and that's all folks.

I've got an awesome set of videos from CadClips (something like 25 videos, anywhere from 10-20 minutes each) on RMEP Electrical and I'm working my way through those to come up with some kind of program I can develop to focus things on the Electrical side.

Does anyone have anything they've been using that they'd like to share or at least point me in a direction where I can dig it up on my own? I don't have any problems with the subject, I just like to use structured training when I work with a client and having courseware they can have when we're done always is a benefit.