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Thread: Block References Itself *Invalid*

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert.Hall View Post
    I can create the error if I have a block inserted into a drawing, save the file, and then insert it as a block into another drawing.

    I endup with a block inside a block.

    I am spinning now
    There's nothing wrong with your description, unless the block & the file both have the same name. You could inadvertently also get this happening if the block you've inserted already contains another block & the file has the same name as that one. AC doesn't worry about a block being named the same as the file in which it resides, only when you now insert that file does it notice that there's name duplication.

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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    Ah, I read this topic with interest.
    I too am the same problem with error messages. I'm trying to make some custom symbols for ACADE. From the instructions, I'm led to believe that I should produce some lines to represent my symbol, then add the attributes, and finally block it up, within the *.dwg, and then save it, to my 'symbol' file. The last thing I am asked, is 'do I want to insert one now'. If I reply 'yes' I get my symbol, the 'look up' panel and I add all the specs where necessary. If I then attempt to put the same symbol in a new project, I get the error as previously mentioned.

    From reading the above posts, it seems it is the fact that I block it up before saving is the problem, and that I should infact leave it unblocked. Then when it is inserted with the Icon Menu, it will automatically block it upon insertion? is that correct.

    Obviously I'll go and try it later, but I need a rest, I've been at it for nearly ten hours now and need a break.
    All the best
    GB

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    Quote Originally Posted by GettinBetter View Post
    Ah, I read this topic with interest.
    I too am the same problem with error messages. I'm trying to make some custom symbols for ACADE. From the instructions, I'm led to believe that I should produce some lines to represent my symbol, then add the attributes, and finally block it up, within the *.dwg, and then save it, to my 'symbol' file. The last thing I am asked, is 'do I want to insert one now'. If I reply 'yes' I get my symbol, the 'look up' panel and I add all the specs where necessary. If I then attempt to put the same symbol in a new project, I get the error as previously mentioned.

    From reading the above posts, it seems it is the fact that I block it up before saving is the problem, and that I should in fact leave it unblocked. Then when it is inserted with the Icon Menu, it will automatically block it upon insertion? is that correct.

    Obviously I'll go and try it later, but I need a rest, I've been at it for nearly ten hours now and need a break.
    All the best
    GB
    Without knowing the peculiarities of ACADE I'd say yes.

    The simplest description is that a drawing named A is allowed to contain a block that is also called A - no problem.
    If the drawing A is inserted into a drawing B there is the problem because the drawing A is now a block (inside drawing B) called A and contains a different block that is also called A.
    If the original block A is written out to a separate file, that block can be inserted into drawing B.

    HTH

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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    Quote Originally Posted by kane333 View Post
    What I don't understand is, I save the modified Block under a new name, copy/paste it into my Tool Palette, yet the error occurs even if I open a new drawing that has no blocks in it what-so-ever. When I use the 'Insert - Block' pull down is when it gives me the error, but I can drag that same block from my Tool Palette into the same drawing that gives me the error message and it'll work....
    Y'll,

    It has been my experience that when I get that error, I have a block (lets say it is called "A") within the block of the same name, "A" (often happens when you explode and modify an existing block). To avoid this, once I have exploded a block I do a PURGE, then fix and resave my block. When you insert it again it should be clean. You sometimes have to explode your original block two or more times. AutoCAD will let you create these same-name blocks within blocks, but it gets nuts when you try to insert them.

    Bruce

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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    Very new to AutoCAD but very interested to see what appears to be a very frustrating problem so is there any way you can clean a Block up so that it stops references itself *Invalid*

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiznae583760 View Post
    Very new to AutoCAD but very interested to see what appears to be a very frustrating problem so is there any way you can clean a Block up so that it stops references itself *Invalid*
    Hi, welcome to AUGI.

    This thread explains it pretty well already.
    The simplest start is - are you inserting a dwg file as a block. If so, the block exists inside that file with the same name so either rename the file or open the file and rename or explode the block. [Explode is usually best in simple circumstances.]

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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    Quote Originally Posted by jaberwok View Post
    Hi, welcome to AUGI.

    This thread explains it pretty well already.
    The simplest start is - are you inserting a dwg file as a block. If so, the block exists inside that file with the same name so either rename the file or open the file and rename or explode the block. [Explode is usually best in simple circumstances.]
    I would recommend these steps instead
    • Renaming the drawing file
    • Open newly renamed drawing file
    • Using the RENAME command to rename the appropriate block
    • Save the drawing
    • Rename the drawing file back to the original file name.
    If you have a technical question, please find the appropriate forum and ask it there.
    You will get a quicker response from your fellow AUGI members than if you sent it to me via a PM or email.
    jUSt

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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    While all those "methods" to "fix" such blocks help ... I still believe the problem is that people don't get trained enough in what a block actually IS. This because it's probably the single biggest mistake new acad users make (at least from my experience of the last few decades). If they knew this, they'd realize that WBlocking out an inserted block / copy-pasting an insert into a new "block DWG file" is actually the same thing as attempting to lift yourself up using your shoelaces. And if they understand blocks to this level, such problems are very easily avoidable in the first place (actually easier than to do it the wrong way round).

    To try and explain: A block is NOT the thing you see on the screen. It's the "definition" of what to display. This is saved inside the DWG as a non-visual (hidden) set of data stating what's inside the block. When you place the block, all that's being done is you create an Insert of the block, not the block itself - the very idea of a block is this: you have a definition which you can insert multiple times without duplicating anything.

    The "error" happens when people fail to realize the difference between the 2, or more probably have not been shown what the difference is. They think that the thing they see IS the block, and thus if they export this visible thing (by whatever means) the exported DWG is the block and can be used in place of it. This is wrong because they're actually exporting the inserted block reference, which in turn exports both the definition and the insert/reference into that DWG. I.e. when you do this, you create a DWG which contains the block, but what you're actually after is a DWG which IS the block.

    So rather than exporting the insert and then later trying to fix it, do it the "correct" way to begin with by forcing ACad to export the block's definition as a new DWG. The "easiest" way to do this is also the oldest - using the WBlock command, but ensuring you use it's "Block" option when in the dialog (NOT its "Objects" option). Quick check: If you have to type the block's name when saving the file, then you're doing it wrong. If this happened, you're making a nested copy of the block inside a DWG by the same name - which will then fail to insert as it will have a block within a block, both named the same.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    Hi Yall,

    I am a freshman interning this summer at an engineering firm, and one of the tasks they are having me complete is cleaning up their large amount of blocks as dynamic blocks. I started this task yesterday by combining four types of two position selector switches in to one dynamic block. The problem is when I go to insert it into a drawing it gives the 'references itself' error. Some people on here said that exploding the block would fix it but I cant do that as it removes all the work that I have done to make the block dynamic. Is there any other way to fix this error?

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    Default Re: Block References Itself *Invalid*

    Have your read this thread? Some suggest exploding, but that really does not fix the issue. The error states there is a block that has an identical name of the drawing it is contained in. Inserting the drawing into another drawing causes this error. Either rename the block or rename the drawing before inserting into another drawing. Those are the simplest options.
    If you have a technical question, please find the appropriate forum and ask it there.
    You will get a quicker response from your fellow AUGI members than if you sent it to me via a PM or email.
    jUSt

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